Thoughts on Downloaded

While BSG was recording on my DVR, I happened to turn the TV on during the first few moments. I was doing something else so I really couldn't hear what was happening, but I could sort of see what was going on from across the room. When they showed Baltar appear at Six's side after her "rebirth" I about lost it. I couldn't believe that they had shown his being a Cylon! From across the room with no sound, that is exactly what it looked like.

So, I spent all day yesterday completely thinking that Baltar was another Cylon model. I was therefore surprised (and a little relieved) that he is still human.

I think Anders said it best when he proclaimed "What kind of people are you?" at the end of the episode. I find myself asking that about everyone on the show at this point.

The Cylons
There are some fairly major issues that I have with the portrayal of the Cylons this week. I like to keep my thoughts on the episode positive, but I would like to address two main things:

1. Where are the other Cylon models?
   You can't tell me that if there is an entire planet like Caprica being resettled that we wouldn't see all 12 models involved in the process. If you really wanted to tell this story right, they should have been included, even if it involved strange references to models we haven't met and creative editing to obscure their faces. If that was actually happening, I didn't pick up on it. Maybe it was too early to tell this story then? Maybe they should have waited for some distant season when all the models were revealed? I would have been happy with some sort of explanation as to why the other models weren't involved. As it stands, it seems a bit too convenient.
   
2. Number Six has no remorse… remember?
   They made a big deal of playing up the compassion of Number Six and her guilt over causing the destruction of the colonies which lead to what she thought was the death of her lover Baltar, yet make no mention of the infanticide she committed to that little baby in the miniseries. I would have liked to hear some sort of recognition of her past sins, many of them extremely heinous, and learned how she is reconciling those with her new found realization that "a sin is a sin" no matter who tells you to commit it. Her killing that child is such a strong mental image that it causes me to discredit and therefore not fully buy her quick ascension to a moral high ground beyond that of her society.

Other than these two issues, this definitely feels like a turning point for the entire Cylon civilization. On the one hand you have the peace activist colonialists siding with the Cylons against the military/political mechanisms of the fleet. On Caprica you now have peace activist Cylons siding with the terrorist humans against the theological/fundamentalist mechanisms of the Cylons. I can fully imagine both of these dynamics coming into play during the season 2 finale just around the corner.

There has been a conscious attempt to make the Cylons appear more and more human. I guess I would ask why? Why do the Cylons need a coffee shop? Are they driven to leisure just like humans are? Where is the boundary? Is the whole point that there is no difference between Cylon or human except that one is made with biological reproduction and the other with genetically manipulated/digitally augmented cloning? To this end, Doctor Cottle's line about "not bothering to upgrade the plumbing" pushes this even further… if a Cylon can have a detached placenta, what the hell kind of being are we dealing with? The numbers of questions that this episode opens up are too many to fathom. I find myself a bit shell-shocked… forced to simply sit back and wait for the answers. 

The Colonialists
It feels like Laura, Adama, and everyone else "running" the fleet are creating an "Old Boys" network. It is funny that in the media we often find ourselves largely critical of secret societies and back room deals, yet here we see just such an instance played out in a science fiction drama. Are we as critical of this decision as we are when we find out similar such decisions are made without our knowledge? We live in a society of information, yet one of the reasons our society runs so smoothly is that there are people whose sole job it is to make hard decisions that we do not want to know about. A large part of success in any environment of control, be it at the government level or the corporate level in your own job is properly controlling the amount of information people receive and when they receive it. We end up relying on this ignorance so that we can go about our lives happily, filtering what we care about and what we do not wish to concern ourselves with. After all, civilization is powered by specialization, even when it comes to what you know, and what you choose not to. There is someone out there chopping the head off of a cow so that I can eat hamburgers, even though if I had to kill that cow, I would probably be a vegetarian. There are people making "morally objectionable" decision that probably results in saving lives, and while I am all for saving lives, would I personally be able to make the same decision devoid of emotional constraints knowing the sacrifices that would be required?

Adama is actually someone who has a pretty difficult time separating emotion from his choices. He risked the entire fleet to save Kara when she was stranded on that planet. It is actually Laura who is rising up as someone who really has the guts to make the tough calls. She is a person of great conviction, but also critical pragmatism. I don't think the fleet would have survived nearly as long as it has without her heavy hand in many of the decisions. It will be interesting to see how the choices she has made come back to haunt her in the upcoming presidential election.

The Mind
As I said in the beginning of this write-up, I almost lost it when Baltar appeared in the room with the Cylons. Again, the line between human and Cylon is blurring as we now find out that even machines can internalize their own remorse through the creation of imaginary friends!

The use of this device was amazingly effective in letting us see how Number Six was grappling with the choices she has made. Just like Baltar's imaginary six, the imaginary Baltar is confident, brutally honest, and a perfect manifestation of inner suspicions, subconscious observations and instinct.

A part of me wonders if using mental projections of people isn't some broader commentary about everyone. It is possible that all of us do something similar in our own minds? For instance, when we go to make a choice, who is it that we have the conversation with? It could be a projection of our parents… it could be our friends… but there is probably someone who we talk to. We think we are talking to ourselves but we are actually projecting the image of someone we can talk with, someone we trust.

We have been thinking this entire show that Number Six is a chip in Baltar's head and now we know that is definitely not the case. Maybe we all have a Number Six in our hear, someone who holds us to task for stupid decisions and gives us the insight we need or the push that we need in those times when we are begging for support. Some people talk to Jesus. Some people talk to their father or their mother or their best friend, or a dead relative. Baltar talks to Number Six. Number Six talks to Baltar. 

The Rebel Fighters
Off topic: How come every time I use the word rebel I think of Star Wars?

I am glad to see Anders back in the mix. He is a strong character and offers a lot, bringing a human face to the morally gray actions of terrorism. This show is definitely asking some tough questions… last week abortion… now bombing coffee shops. 

I just love this show in how such a simple few lines can really cause you to think about an issue in an entirely different way. It is proof that there is no right answer. I don't think there is anyone out there that would have an objection to Anders blowing up all those Cylons. It is only that way because we are all on the rebel's side. If some great enemy were to suddenly enslave our own country (ala the US Revolutionary War), the Minute Men would be back… striking fast at the vulnerabilities of an established power and fading into the country side… hitting and running… terrorizing.

I was curious as to how Anders and everyone stumbled across the knowledge of resurrection. It is quite obvious that the Cylons are clones, but it seems like fairly specific knowledge that they are downloaded with their memories maintained. It is realistic to think they captured a Cylon and interrogated him… maybe I am forgetting a conversation that gave the rebels that knowledge.

It is obvious by the end of the show, that Anders himself is forced to question his own actions. He learned a lot from CapricaSix and GalacticaSharon that will no doubt force him to re-examine his tactics. Maybe they aren't just machines… maybe they are simply a different kind of people.

Conclusion
While this episode had a few major holes, I had a lot of fun with it. We were able to see things we hadn't seen before, listen to struggles and conversation that ultimately lead to a humanization of an enemy whose motivations we barely understand. The part with Baltar in the beginning was also one of the more exciting bait-and-switch moments of the series. It definitely had my heart beating fast and my mind reeling. There is a distinct feeling that Downloaded marks a huge turning point for the show. It introduced a cover-up to the political ranks of the fleet and introduced a covert moral/religious movement to the Cylons, both of which will most likely play themselves out over the season finale, ending in one hell of a cliff hanger that I am sure will leave us wanting more.

MIA this week: Lee Adama commands the Pagasus?

Principal MVP of the episode is a tie this week, going to the dynamic duo of Tricia Helfer as Number Six and James Callis as Giaus Baltar. I don't think you can honestly credit one performance without recognizing the other. There was that excellent moment when ImaginarySix throws Baltar against the wall promising a reckoning for obstructing God's will, and those tears of sadness and fear rolling down Baltar's cheeks. There was also those superb moments with ImaginaryBaltar calling out all the faults in the Cylons, their lying, their manipulation… and doing it with a smug confidence we haven't seen from his character in quite some time. Simply delightful.

Secondary MVP of the episode goes to Donnelly Rhodes as Dr. Cottle. He is known to be one of Ron Moore's favorite characters and it shows. He is being given a lot more to do and he is making sure that he takes advantage of it. His character can convey so much in a simple look. He continually holds his own against when the heavy-weights are in the room. I feel like he is being set up for a pivotal moment in the episodes to come.

Additional Resources

• Official episode 2.18 synopsis
• Episode 2.18 podcast commentary
• Now Playing Interview with Ron Moore about episode 2.18

Comments

[Marshdog]

Also, they were missing one of the cylons that has been shown previously. They must not have been able to get the actor who played the character (he was the one in the first season where Starbuck was interrogating the cylon). This really bothered me, continunity wise.

[Trapper Markelz]

Marshdog - I haven't listened to the podcast yet, so I am wondering if there is a good explanation for all of this... maybe they will explain later that there is a good reason only a few models are involved with Caprica. Maybe different models have different sectors... but yeah... Simon was on Caprica to begin with... so he should have been somewhere in the shots.

[Asa]

I definitely saw Simon (the doctor Cylon from "The Farm") in the Coffee Shop. I think I saw Loben Conoy (The one Starbuck interrogated in "Flesh & Bone") in the background, though I'm not sure.

I forgive them for only showing 5 models on Caprica, showing more would have ruined the surprise for no good reason. Given that you don't want to reveal other identities, I'd rather they do this kind of episode than not do it at all.

[Paul Karpenko]

Yeah, Simon was definately shown in this episode.

And there are six known Cylons, not five.

Leoben
Doral
Simon
D'anna
Sharon
Six

[Paul Karpenko]

Oh, you meant five on Caprica, not all together. My bad.

[Trapper Markelz]

Asa - While I was talking with Paul Karpenko at work, I was explaining how I would have at least liked them to reveal another model... since they went through all the effort of being inclusive about all the models currently involved.

In the past, the reveal is always part of some sort of character interaction with the fleet. I believe they had a unique opportunity to unveil a cylon model that we haven't met yet in the fleet, someone that no one has met yet, making us the audience scrutinize every scene to see if the new Cylon model is there... in the background... unknown to the crew.

But, they chose not to do that. No big deal, i think just it would have made things interesting.

[Brian]

It seems that we had the same thoughts and reactions to this episode. My one additional question is: who is Number One? We learned that four of the known models are 3, 5, 6, and 8. We don't know who Number One is. I have to wonder whether Number One has some leadership position among the Cylons.

THE PLAN

[Asa]

You remind me of the classic line from "The Prisoner": 'Who is number 1? I am number 2, you are number 6! I am not a number, I am a free man!"

It would be funny if the numbering order had something to do with level of authority. What I thought was interesting was that number 6's mental Gaius was making her more human, whereas Gaius's mental Number 6 has been drawing him towards the Cylon cause. I can imagine a future where Caprica-6 and Galactia-Gaius meet and they discover that the former has been converted to the human causes whereas the latter has become a Cylon follower.

Also there are so many versions of number 6 bouncing around the show (ignoring all the others on Caprica) that I'm having difficulty keeping them all straight. Technically what keeps the Cylons on Caprica from having different hairstyles as well as clothes? (It would be impossible for the actors, but I'd like to see the same models with different wacky hairstyles)

[RK Bentley]

I think the episode was a big turn around from the dreck of the last few weeks.

I think the whole chip not planted in Baltar's head is a load of bs.

In my mind it's easier to have the Cyclons to inplant something in Batlar's head that the Galactica's sensors can't "see" (she's an old ship and this isn't star trek, a quick static burst of information wouldn't be too hard to do) and whoever the Six he sees and whoever the Baltar Caprica Six sees is running this entire show back on the Cylone Homeworld.

If I'm wrong then so be it.

I just find it hard to believe thst in a world of Vipers, robots, downloadable memories and giant starships both of these people are having talks with their conciousness/IDs/superegos during peak moments.

[Adric]

Regarding the missing Cylons on the planet - the Battlestar Wiki says that the actors weren't actually in the ep at all, just brief shots of look-alikes (for Simon and Loben).

Also noted on the Wiki is that the Cylon numbers seem to have something to do with apparent age - with older-looking models having lower numbers. Presumably number 1 has a middle-aged appearance (i.e. about Adama or Roslin's age...) and yeah, might be the "Imperious Leader" from the old show.

In any case, it does seem that D'anna Biers/Number 3 subtly "outranks" 6 and 8 in some way.

Reagarding MIA Lee ---> it's not just a matter of him being MIA commanding the Pegasus but also having not been at the meeting where they decide what to do with the cylon child. TIgh was there, but not Lee, even though Lee now outranks Tigh and is presumably part of the command staff. So Lee's promotion still bugs me a lot. The writers seems to be going out of their way to avoid having to deal with the part of the story where Tigh reacts to Lee's promotion.

I agree with the comments made on Laura Roslin - she's tough, and yes, I think presented as tougher than Adama in a lot of ways - and I don't like that. One of the things that got me to keep watching the miniseries was the presentation of Adama as someone aloof and almost infallible - just like he had been in the old show. I'm not sure I really like him having been upstaged by the new president character in this way.

That said, I think Roslin is a VERY interesting character - largely for the same reason. She comes into the show as a reluctant politician, but in fact that was never true. She is a career politician and a professional and damn good at what she does.

Regarding Baltar's imaginary friend - I think there must be more to it than that. Remember the first season ep. "Six Degrees of Separation?" Baltar laughs at God, and so the Number Six in his head goes offline for a bit, and a real version of the model coincidentally shows up? I don't think we have the answer to the visions yet.

I agree that the scenes on Caprica look contrived due to the lack of the other models. They probably should have waited till later to do this episode, yeah. But it was still a great ep , and I second whoever it was that said that this was a nice break from the doldrums the show has been in recently. This is the first episode after the show lost its way that I really feel like things are starting to get back on track (as entertaining as "Captain's Hand was," a lot of stuff still felt wrong).

[Adric]

HA! It turns out to have been RK Bentley, post just above mine - who said it:

"I think the episode was a big turn around from the dreck of the last few weeks."

Hear, hear!

[Peter]

It was a lot of fun to watch the Cylons behaviour on Caprica. Their main activities seem to be planting trees, drinking coffee, and standing around looking absent minded. This all leaves me feeling confused. What are the cylons doing on Caprica?

D'anna said to Caprica six, "There is talk of boxing Sharon." Who is talking about this? Does this mean that the cylons have a group of leaders? If so, it's going to be interesting to see which models are part of the Cylon inner circle.

[Elliott]

Perhaps the visions Baltar and Six are experiencing really are visions sent from God, and have nothing to do with the Cylon agenda. It's like the Six-Vision said in 'Hand of God' - that God doesn't pick sides, and that He isn't just 'the Cylon god' - and 'Home, Part 2' - that she was an angel sent from on high.

Perhaps the Cylons don't actually 'hear' God, the way the mini-series made it appear (with Six's 'I've been waiting for you' line). I think the fact that CapricaSix and GalacticaBoomer are challenging what it means to follow God's will - that genocide, even in His name, is wrong, etc. - is proof that the Cylons are merely acting in His name, rather than communicating with Him on a personal basis.

If what I postulate is the case, then God may be looking out for both the Cylons, and for Man. And the hybrid child could be the key to uniting them both.

[Cpt Chaos]

for me this was the worst episode of the whole series! While "Epiphanies" had many logical errors (baltars nuke, miracle cure) it a least had a decent execution (e.g. good acting, editing, lot of tension, interesting flashbacks etc.)
But THIS ONE was bad acted (e.g. Lucy Lawless aka Xena was sooo bland horrible), bad written and had more major plot holes than I could possibly count.
I dont know but more and more I get the impression that the writers make everything up as they go along. Like one poster on the official scifi.com forums said: "The cylons have a plan - And the writers don't know what it is." This ep was the perfect opportunity for them to show us at least A GLIMPSE of the cylon plan / their mindset / their motivation for destroying humanity - But NO, instead we get smug coffee drinking cylons smalltalking about their war heroes and centurions planting trees. And how convenient that of course we only saw the 6 models we already know!
The only positive things were the opening with 6 and sharon reincarnating (matrix style) and the talk between 6 and imaginary baltar (although this also bothers me: now it will be much more harder to find a logical and plausible explanation for the imaginary 6 in baltars head...it can't be that baltar is just nuts)
After all, this a major downfall after scar, sacrifices and the captains hand (which imho were quite satisfying).
I can only hope that the season finale will compensate for it!

greetings
Cpt Chaos

[Aragorn]

I have to say... I don't particularly like anders. To be more specific, I see what his place in the storyline is, and I definitely think it was a great idea, and very necessary...

But I am totally unimpressed with the actor, as I don't think he stands up to the rest of the cast, even those who don't appear too often. Even moreso, I don't like the character it's self very much.

[Trapper Markelz]

RK Bently - You may think "the whole chip not planted in Baltar's head is a load of bs." but eventually we will all have to recognize that in interviews and podcasts Ron Moore continually calls the projection of Number Six a psychosis. That means that it really is all in their head... no techno-babble solution... just simply biological malfunction based on trauma.

If you really want to examine what the most simple solution is, the rule of Ockham's razor would say that it is far simpler for it to all be in their head than having it be a chip requiring fancy and undetectable streaming of digital content complex enough to create an interactive mental projection.

I definitely started out thinking it was a chip... but Downloaded proves to me that it is not.

[winston]

I have to disagree with both of your criticisms and agree whole-heartedly with your praise.

First, while I understand your curiosity about the other Cylon models, always remember that the story is paramount and revealing additional models would have done nothing to advance the story. And, since we may need to deal with those actors/characters again, it makes no sense to spend time on that at the expense of getting the story right. And they got the story very right.

As for Six's killing of the baby in the miniseries, you may recall that after the murder, Six's face is not that of a cold-blooded killer. I think she was immediately bothered by it. But her compromise of the defenses of Caprica wasn't as personal as killing a baby, so she was able to continue with her mission. Only after rebirth, did she start dealing with the personal aspects of what she had done, thereby conforming with what I think were her emotions regarding the baby's death in the miniseries.

[Aaron]

What if the other Cylon models opposed the destruction of Caprica and the attack in general? What if the other models were content with life on the Cylon home world and wanted to live in peace? Maybe there is a third force out there that the fleet will need to deal/make an alliance with?

This is farfetched, but could explain the missing models.

Or, the missing models could be 'boxed' as was refered to in the episode. Maybe Caprica 6 and Sharon will try to set other 'boxed' models free?

[vincent formosa]

I like the discussion springing up about this but I do think ron moore and the writing team should have done more to address what the Cylons plan in returning to the colonies and attempting to nuke them out of existence was?

after all, the whole reason Caprica Six was sent to 'love' Batltar was to get into the colonial defence net.

sure, she has remorse for enabling billions to get nuked, but that was her mission after all and she was a willing part of that.

however, if we now flip that. it seems obvious that this six had never been resurrected before, so this reminder of her own mortality may have been the thing that gets her to thinking about what she has done.

I'm also not bothered about her not mentioning the baby she snapped like a twig immediately before the holocaust as I could quite easily see her lumping its death in with everyone elses considering it happened the same day.

galactica sharons reaction and the cylon view of it reminds me very much of some scenes from Bladerunner and perhaps this is where Ron Moore is going with this.

Tyrell says 'more human than human' in bladerunner and that phrase fits this moment perfectly. Gsharon is a machine, but she was never programmed from the outset to ever believe she was anything other than human. so when the 'programming' kicks in and she attempts to off Adama, and in her own mind succeeds (remember, she doesn't know he survived) her 'human' side remains dominant because to her, she was human and cannot reconcile this change, particularly after she is resurrected.

regards caprica six I think we are seeing an interesting paradox here.

up till now, the six's we have seen have been driven, ruthlessly decisive and even pegasus six knew what she was and did what she did to achieve a specific goal.

pegasus six strayed from the cylon path when she was abused physically and mentally to the point that she wanted to die rather than be resurrected, as the pain she had gone through made her 'appreciate' in a sense, her mortality. that you have one life to lead and you make the best of the time you have.

caprica six has strayed once she faces what she has done. logically as a machine, she shouldn't give a damn, but it is clear that by adopting a religious path, ie the rejection of the colonial religion in favour of a single mystical being, the cylon logic can be swayed by religious considerations and that even their own religion can clash ideologically with their stated goal. ie near the end of the episode when Lawless' character says 'god loves me' as she is about to off Anders, even though , I think its sharon reminds her that its wrong to kill and she knows the difference between right and wrong.

looking at the plan. if the plain objective was to kill/eradicate mankind, they've done a piss poor job of it.

if the plan was something more, then this fits with their hounding but not total destruction of the human fugitives. perhaps they want the survivors to have a moment of religious clarity and to embrace the new cylon religion. the only problem with that is we don't know what the agenda of the religion is, plus they don't exactly have anyone touting the cylon religion in the fleet. I dion't think pegasus 6 counts here as she is in the with the peace activists although one could argue that she could be steering them in this direction.

also, if they wanted to eradicate mankind, then why use them as breeding stock? its obvious that the cylons wish to transcend their creators and to some extents have done so. however, it also seems that they wish to transcend their own logic, this is illustrated by their needing to use humans to breed/reproduce. they are wanting human genetic material to introduce random factors in appearance, genotypes etc. ie to go beyond the 12 cylon models that exist.

after all there is a reasonable TNG episode that illustrated a colony that had insufficient numbers to genetically survive and continue so they had turned to cloning themselves to survive. this is a similar paradox. the cylons have won the war, but what have they gained?

humanities children have returned home, but now seem to be seeking a religious ascension to further their 'species' and make it, in a sense more organic, random, at a time when they themselves have followed logic. it would appear that by adopting a religious base to their lifestyle, they are wanting to go beyond they cold machine logic and become 'more human.'

one final point. are the cylons on Caprica aware of the destruction of the resurrection ship?

could Lawless character on caprica not in fact be resurrected, which would give caprica six and galactica sharon more time to get their new peace manifesto across to the other cylons?

after all, if she resurrects and dobs them in, I doubt they'd last long.

if that is the case, then this plays neatly into the last two epsiodes of this season which we know revolve around a cylon peace offer.

also, who is going to carry the message?

if caprica six does it, will we see her reveal herself and her feelings to Gaius? what will his reaction be? what will his mental six's reaction be. she would probably consider the caprica six to be weak, a heretic who has strayed from the true path of gods plan. but then, gaius has also fallen for the pegasus six, anotehr 'heretic' who wanted to die rather than be resurrected, so I see him being extremely conflicted here.

if galactica sharon goes, then chief tyrol gets to play...awwwww. he gets his 'sharon' back. he has certainly looked a little jealous when he has seen Helo and Sharon together. plus when we consider his actions with helo in the pegasus episode it is clear he still has feelings for her.

Roslin and Adama. it is interesting how their roles have switched in recent weeks. Adama has become softer and more human, Roslin more hard edged and willing to make the hard choices.

both characters have had a brush with death this season. adama's was unexpected and I think this reminder of his mortality has been deeply played by Olmos. he swayed from anger, to obstinacy to humanity and a feeling that petty differences can be ignored if it means getting his family back (both extended and familial) re his forgiveness of Roslin on Kobol and his closer ties and faith in Lee.

Roslin on the other hand had time to reconcile herself to dying. she knew in advance she had terminal breast cancer and in my mind had gradually been cutting her ties. now she is cured and very much alive. also, the arrival of Cain I think shocked her into being more decisive, as Cain's conduct was a clear indication of what happens to the military when out of the control of a civil administration. obviously this is an extreme example and nothing suggests she thinks adama would behave in the same way, but by the same token, ever since Cain showed up, Roslin has been much tougher and willing to make the difficult play.

which leads me to Zarek. although not in this episode there is a posit here that I think Ron Moore missed.

On Kobol, we saw his pragmatic side very much in evidence. when his sidekick was propmpting him to act, he wavered. does this indicate Zarek is weak? or sneaky? or both?

also, although he seems jealous of roslins role of prophet, does he have any religious convictions that have been shaken by what he saw on Kobol? he certainly seemed impressed at the time.

In the early part of next season I want to see Roslin, the search for earth etc back into the picture. it was a major arc to the early part of season two. and the reason d'aitre for the fleet continuing on its course.

inf act since, Home Part 1 and 2, not one word about earth, finding the constellations that point the way etc has even been mentioned. lets get back to that a bit please.

of course, now that Roslin is no longer dying, ie presumably no longer taking Charnalla, will she still take it for visions etc.

has the book of Pythia been fully explained. after all, heres a leap.

are the cylons the 'lost' 13th tribe. after all, they are sentient, they have goals, a conscience, a civilisation.

could it be twisted in this sense so that the finding of the 13th tribe is the integration of cylons and humans into a new society?

my brain is fried, go play, debate.

[Josiah]

What a fascinating episode! Definitely left me primed for the two-part season finale.

Regarding the now dual voices inside the heads of Baltar and Six, I can't quite accept that it's purely psycological, i.e. "in their heads."

Because, if Six died in Baltar's house on the day of the attacks, then isn't it likely Baltar died too?

I remember thinking about this when I saw the miniseries, because from the shot of the blast, it looks like a nuclear explosion rips through Baltar's house. Six does say "get down" and he kinda crouches behind her. But c'mon -- as spectacular as Six's legs are, I don't think they're enough to shield Baltar from a nuke (or even an explosion large enough to rip his house apart).

But if he died, then he's either a cylon or somehow got a new body using methods similar to the cylon downloading process. As far as we know, he's certain he's human, but he wouldn't be the first "sleeper."

We have not seen any of the cylon's leadership hierarchy, and thus far it's not clear who/what gives orders and how those orders are sent throughout the cylon population.

But perhaps Baltar-Six connection is known only to the imperious leader or whomever's in charge? Perhaps the fact that the child Sharon carried (which she thought was her own) was really Baltar and Six's (if true) has something to do with this.

Anyway -- what a way to come down the stretch for Season Two!

[Antonious]

Okay, I think I have the whole Baltar / Six thing figured out. First, let's just admit that there is a ZERO PERCENT PROBABILITY that Baltar survived the explosion that destroyed his home on Caprica.

Subsequently; Six didn't appear in Baltar's head until after he ended up inside the Galactica, no one seems to be aware of Six presense except for Baltar, and Six is always guiding Baltar to do things that will further the Cylon master plan.

In 'downloaded' we are presented with a mirror situation; a Baltar no one but Six can see, who is trying to get her to do what is right according to human way of doing things.

So what to make of this?

I think I have the answer. In fact, I am so confident in it that I will boldly issue a SPOILER ALERT!

Here goes...

Baltar and Six were BOTH killed in the nuclear explosion at Baltar's house. Subsequently, they were both downloaded into new bodies, but for some reason, perhaps because of the explosion and their relative proximity to each other during their deaths, their personality algorithms became intermixed in transit.

In effect, when they rebooted into new bodies an aspect of Six was now in Baltar and vice-versa. Interestingly enough, they both seem to inhabit the inner-voice or alter-ego regions of each other, making them constantly question themselves and their actions.

Baltar makes six more human, while Six makes Baltar more Cylon. No wonder they are so in love - talk about soul-mates!

The only question that remains for me was whether or not Baltar was a human or a sleeper Cylon when he died. Even after his resurrection, Baltar may not technically be a Cylon, at least in the sense that he was not created from scratch and given a mission to carry out. Most likely he is a cloned-human who isn't aware that the original had died.

So, if this is the case - what is the ultimate Cylon plan? I believe it was to eliminate as many people as they could, but leave enough alive to force the humans to interbreed with the Cylons thereby ensuring 2 things the Cylons want:

1) The human genetic stock would enable the Cylons to reproduce succesfully and indefinitely (it has already been revealed that the Cylons are having problems in this area).

2) Humanity - the scourge of God - could be kept in check, and even upgraded, in the eyes of the Cylons.

Why kill billions? If too many humans we're left alive, they would have never accepted the notion of interbreeding - but now - as Baltar himself said recently, the human stock left is not sufficient for the long-term survival of the species.

Only a drastic action - such as interbreeding with Cylons - can save the human race now.

There!

[Mabus]

I just want to say, about this notion that Baltar is a Cylon, that makes absolutely no sence. Why would there be several scenes where six is explaining things to him? Why would six even be there, when they could have just used Baltar to figure out the colonial defences? Couldn't he have made it so the cylons could just hit the self-destruct button from far away, instead of actualy coming in to destroy them?

And for those who say that Baltar couldn't have survived the nuclear explosion, his house wasn't hit by a nuclear explosion, it was hit by the shockwave of one that was oviously very far away. I'm thinking it was from nuke that's flash almost blinded Baltar, and it just took that long to reach his house. If you listen carefully, as soon as you see that flash, you can hear a rubling off in the distance that keeps getting louder and louder, until the shockwave hits the house. And if you look closely in the miniseries, you can see that the house was never actualy blown apart. Six was killed by the hundreds of pieces of glass being jammed into he back, that's why she woke up on the resurection ship screaming.

[Antonious]

Mabus asks, "Why would there be several scenes where six is explaining things to him?"

Part of six's personna is now part of Baltar's mind (and vice-versa). The Six in Baltar's mind retains all of the Cylon knowledge and motivation she previously had - only revealing things to Baltar as she feels is necessary to accomplish her goals.

Mabus asks, "Why would six even be there, when they could have just used Baltar to figure out the colonial defences?"

Baltar was a real human who was subsequently cloned because the Cylons believed they could use him to gain control over the remaining humans left with Galactica. The storyline seems to be pushing events in this direction. The Cylons may be unaware of the Baltar/Six mental connection, which may prove to ultimately be their undoing.

One could ask the same question about Boomer; why didn't she kill Adama the countless other times she was alone with him before and after the Cylon attack?

As for the shockwave that destroyed Baltar's house, there simply is no logical way he survived it. There have been many references (even in 'Downloaded') about his house being utterly destroyed and left in ruins.

If Six was killed, so was Baltar - her body was simply not enough of a shield to save his life. They were standing in front of ceiling-high glass windows for Frak's sake. That's like a hundred grenades being tossed onto your lap!

Also, if you remember the scene where Baltar gets picked up by Boomer (a Cylon accomplice?) on Caprica, Baltar's condition and clothing in no way look like he just survived a nuclear shock-wave that destroyed his house.

[Josiah]

I think it's a tough call on whether Baltar was killed in the explosion. We know for sure that the blast was strong enough to kill Six.

And we know that BSG characters can survive certain-death situations, e.g. Anders surviving the blast in Downloaded. He was, what, 20 feet away from a bomb that took down the entire building and hiding behind a car. Possible, but highly unlikely.

Now, regardless of whether the blast was a nuke on the back porch or a nuke many miles away, the force was strong enough to appear to rip through Baltar's house. If it was strong enough to kill Six, shouldn't it also be strong enough to kill someone standing right next to her?

Granted, he does "get down" just before the blast. Maybe that's enough. After all, it's easier to conceive of his character as human.

If he is dead, then there's a world of opportunities for the writers. Is he a Cylon? Is he Model # 1? Was the Baltar that died on Caprica the "original" Baltar, and the one on Galactica is a cylon clone?

And finally, when Starbuck was on Caprica and had a strange procedure performed on her, did that have anything to do with the fact that she and Baltar had slept together in an earlier episode? Or, in taking her ovary or whatever they did, is it possible there is going to be a 13th model that's based on Starbuck?

I don't know if any of these questions are actually relevant, and I certainly don't expect too many answers too soon. I just hope that, when whole Cylon plan is revealed, none of it involves the casino planet.

[Antonious]

You mean Lasvegia or Atlanticitia?