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Adric

Good commentary as usual!

I agree about the abortion debate. There's no point to making a scifi show "current" if it's just going to rehash the positions we hear on the news every day. The angle they're taking on it is indeed fresh, and I appreciate that. I also appreciate the fact that they actually advanced a pro life position. I say this as a staunch pro-choicer myself: but let's face it, pro choice is the default Hollywood position, so it's nice to see someone bucking the herd, challenging the general assumptions, as you say.

Roslin's statement that she's "fought for a woman's right to choose all my life" seemed cheap and easy, though. Is the abortion debate really so recent in this civilization? Granted, Gemenon apparently opposes it, so maybe that's what it's all about. All the same, I felt a little disappointed in that line because up to now they've gone out of their way - and done a damn fine job doing it! - to show us a society with complete gender equality. There's no reason, of course, why this debate couldn't exist in a gender-equal society too, of course, but something about the way Roslin says it (I can't remember the exact words - but I think there's something about a woman's right to control her body?) sounds way too much like the way the debate is framed in our society.

One thing I DID like about all that, though, was Roslin's quick reversal. Obviously those principles don't run all that deep - which is consistent with the Laura Roslin we've seen in the past. She does a good job presenting herself as a reluctant politician -- but that's not QUITE right, is it?

Oh - and two more gripes. I didn't like the "pound of flesh" line because I doubt very seriously if there's a parallel Shakespeare and Merchant of Venice on Caprica! And of course, my standard gripe...MORE GAETA PLEASE!!!


(Sorry - this got posted in another section by accident - am reposting here)

aragorn

AAAAAAH!!! RHETORICAL QUESTION OVERLOAD!!!!

Trapper Markelz

Aragorn - I like to think of it as Socratic... ;)

Trapper Markelz

Adric - I agree with you about the "fight all my life" line. It did seem inserted and it essentially hits us over the head screaming "If you haven't figured it out by now this is about the US abortion debate"

All that aside though, the B-plot line still works and succeeds more than it fails.

Brian Jutting II

I love how they put current problems in the show, it makes it more belivable. Also I cannot wait to see how Lee handles his command. He is not longer a Viper pilot and i dont know how they will handle that, but I'm sure the producers will have somthing in store for us.

And just on a side note... since in the begining when Addama was a commander and he out-ranked Col. Tigh, dose this mean now the Lee Addama out-ranks Col. Tigh? ~lol~

I hope too see Kara be Lee's CAG too... or maybe later become Lee's 1st in Command... Col. Starbuck.

Trapper Markelz

Brian - Good point! Lee does outrank Tigh! I wonder what the ol' Colonel will have to say about that. I also agree that it would be hilarious of Starbuck was to become a colonel. Can you imagine the sparks that would fly between her and Tigh? I don't think that is going to happen though. Starbuck will be the CAG for Galactica, like she said in the episode, at least for the time being.

Adric

Given all the complications of Lee's SHAZAM! promotion - does anyone think maybe it's Apollo rather than Dee we should be keeping a deathwatch on?

Aaron

There is one thing I've been looking for, but can't find. Is there a list of the cylon models someplace? In Season 1, Adama receives the note that states there are 13(or was it 11?) different models. How many have we seen so far? Is Baltar one of them? Could other sleeper agents be the way Baltar got Gina off Pegasus?

Also, in the original mini-series that became the current show, schmatics of the old cylons were shown where they looked the same as the cylons of the original television series. How long till a lost group of there cylons is discovered?

These are questions that have probably already been asked, but I just found this site recently. Thanks.

Adric

Aaron -

If you go to the Battlestar Wiki (link to this episode's entry just above) there is a list of known cylons.

If Baltar is a cylon the show is truly lost. For starters, they'd need to explain why Number Six had to tell him her little secret in the miniseries - why he couldn't just be activated (the way Sharon was when she shot Adama or bombed the water tanks). More importantly, the whole theme revolving around his budding pangs of conscience (such as they are) would have been for nothing. Baltar has probably been medically altered in some way, but it's unlikely he's an actual cylon. (Although, I suppose they could get away with it if he's a brand spankin' new model of some kind. Something experimental. But I still think it works better if he's just human.)

Aragorn

Adric: personally I doubt apollo's abicus is about to run out. He's too critical when it comes to specific characters. For example, Starbuck would be 100% lost without him. Then there is adama. I just don't see that happening.

D on the other hand isn't really up there enough to totally throw off the chemical ballance of the show.

So personally, I doubt it.

Adric

Aragorn-

You're probably right. Apollo is too plugged in to the current story to just axe him.

Still, there's something really phoney about these leapfrog promotions. It screams "SETUP;" doesn't feel natural at all.

For one thing, of course, there's Tigh. Whether or not Adama would chose to promote Lee over Tigh, I'd at least expect the writers to give us a scene either of Adama warning Tigh it was coming or else Tigh reacting to the news.

For another thing, it just doesn't work on a number of character levels. Surely Adama must realize that promoting Lee above Tigh is not a good idea for personal tension reasons. Also, it seems politically really bad to promote your son to command a ship that has evolved a culture of its own. Surely Pegasus' crew would prefer one of their own? Not to mention, it's just sort of bad military sense not to promote someone more familiar with the workings of that ship. (Although, I suppose it's not clear how far Cain's program of integrating the crews has gone - maybe far enough that this all doesn't really matter.)

On top of all that, Lee is guilty of mutiny. I can believe that Adama has the forgiveness in him to see past all that, but I know Tigh DOESN'T. Again - a scene of Tigh's reaction is conspicuously absent here.

In short, these promotions read like a rush job on the part of the writers - definitely setting something up that might not have been in the cards even a couple of weeks ago.

So why would that have anything to say about Apollo dying? I guess it doesn't. Except that there's a lot of net chatter that the cliffhanger for this season is going to be a real shocker. I'm not sure that unmasking anyone as a cylon is going to work - that idea's been around since that final scene with Sharon at the end of the miniseries (implying that she was the Imperious Leader, but nothing more said about that...). The death of a major character (i.e. the Prez, one of the two Adamas, Baltar or Starbuck - I don't think anyone else - even Tigh - is big enough) would definitely work.

But then again, they may just be planning to split Pegasus and Galactica apart for a while.

THe show really tanked when the "48 hours ago" episodes started. Seems like the writers had run out of places to go then and are now scrambling to find something. We're not out of the woods on this yet. "Captain's Hand" is approaching the way things were, but I'm still not sure they're going to be able to fit all these increasingly inconsistent pieces together by the end of this season. The show seems capable of anything at this point - even a Lee Adama death.

But OK - I'm really just indulding a fleeting idea. The case for it being Dee with a deathmark on her head is certainly stronger, yeah.

kate

i didn't find the 'fight all my life' line contrived at all. even in societies where abortion is legal, the debate still goes on. i just took it that this was a policy she had defended throughout her life, simple as that. maybe since i'm not from the u.s. i can see it a little differently. :p

John

Was it foreshadowing when Lee packed his boxing gloves?

Paul Karpenko

I really liked this episode. Like, a lot. But much more for where it leaves the story than its execution. I don't think it was entirely believable that Lee would be offered command that readily by Adama, even though I think it's amazing that it actually happened.

And also, with the expendable Pegasus commander trifecta now played out, Garner, I think was only marginally better than Fisk as a character. He had more to say and had more personality, but he was still written as blatantly antagonistic and hard-headed save for the mild glimmer of wisdom when he's talking about working in the engine room.

It bothers me to no end when characters are one-dimensionally jerks, with every call they make is blatantly wrong. I had the same problem with Crashdown on Kobol where he was shown as utterly incompetent and the Chief was always right. I think the writers should be comfortable with more complexity than that.

Yes, Adama went crazy looking for Starbuck that one time, but that was friggen STARBUCK, and he didn't jump into a likely trap to do it when recon options were available. It's just very easy to promote a character like Lee when what he's contesting against is someone so hard-headed.

Trapper Markelz

Adric - On the issue of promoting from within the Pegasus crew, I think the moment with Lee succeeding on the bridge and everyone looking to him in that moment, he proved to the pegasus crew he could do the job. He not only assumed command, but took out that Basestar. That had to win him big points. He allowed them to survive.

Also, his conduct during the briefing showed that the flight crew does respect him when he raises his voice. Maybe because he is Adama's son, he gets more respect.

The Pegasus is a professional ship and they will most likely respect his rank. I would be really surprised if they didn't given how they have been portrayed as being loyal to the chain of command.

I also think it comes down to a supply/demand issue. If they had to dip into the engineering crew for a Battlestar commander, they must be running low on Pegasus. Lee proved he could handle the job, so it seems realistic it would be his.

Adric

OK - I buy most of what you say - especially the bit about having to promote an engineer as a sign that the Pegasus was running short of qualified officers.

And certainly given Tigh's performance LAST time in the command chair, it seems reasonable Adama isn't rushing to promote him.

I don't know if I buy your story about Pegasus being respectful of the chain of command, though. I think they've been portrayed more as a tight-knit unit that doesn't trust or like outsiders. In this episode alone there were several examples of this (sergeant draws his gun on Lee rather than Garner in violation of regs, Starbuck's crew keeps important secrets from her on Garner's orders and then tattles on her for complaining about them). Sure, the writers emphasize that Pegasus has more military discipline than Galactica - but they also hint that this discipline is based on fear rather than respect. There's always a whiff of the sadistic connected with Pegasus - though no one (except Fisk) ever talks about it openly.

I buy what you're saying about Lee being the most qualified candidate given the circumstances - but I still think the whole thing feels rushed and cheap. The whole episode reads like a giant excuse on the part of the writers to get Lee in that seat --- for whatever reason. There was a time when this show approached things slowly and thoroughly so that they felt natural. Nothing about Lee's quick promotion feels natural. I completely agree with Paul Karpenko that Garner was just a walking - and fairly transparent - plot device. If the writers had known where they were going even a couple of weeks ago, surely they could have postponed Fisk's death - given him a couple more scenes as Pegasus commander - so that we'd have felt that a real person was dying rather than a bridge to Lee's command. I still say the whole thing feels phoney.

Trapper Markelz

Adric - I guess it comes down to a difference of opinion over the use of the Garner character. I thought it was really well done, compared to previous attempts at single episode characters. Let's face it, there will always be a need to bring someone in to serve a specific purpose. If I had to choose, I would pick doing it like they did with Garner over what they did with Phalan... or Lee's hooker friend...

Also, I do agree that the Pegasus is close-knit... like any military operation probably is... but I really think Lee proved during the battle that he commands respect. He practically saved their lives. I really think he earned it.

RoadrunnerDM

" He never wanted to follow in William Adama’s footsteps because he didn’t think he could match up."
I don't think that Lee felt he couldn't live up to his father's achievements. I think for a very long time that Lee simply didn't want to be like his father at all. He was even planning to leave the military altogether before the Cylons attacked. Lee carried a lot of lingering anger and resentment, probably stemming back as far as his parents' divorce, and Bill himself admits he wasn't a very good father. Now that they've been forced back together and have gotten to finally know each other, things have begun to change. Lee has always felt like his father never really approved of him no matter how well he did (reference from "Resistance" - "I know you wouldn't approve, but that's nothing new.") so now when his father exhibits this huge amount of faith in him, he's both stunned and deeply moved. They've grown much closer since the Holocaust, but 30 years of poor communication and hard feelings are pretty difficult to overcome in just a few months.

And I too am a little worried about Dee's longevity. Ever since they started developing a love affair between her and Lee I've wondered if she was going to fill the Serina niche. It is a tempting source of hero-angst for the writers, but maybe they have something else planned. We'll see.

Cpt Chaos

hey, very insightfull review! I have nothing to add, just wanted to say thanks! I love your blog :)

Adric

Trapper -

Agree that Garner was well-done for a one-off character. It's just that I don't much like one-off characters - especially in a show like this one that once offered some of the most believable, well=-developed characters I've probably ever seen on TV.

But yeah - as you say - Lee's prostitute gf, Phalan. Wow. What a HORRIBLE episode that was.

Roadrunner -

I'm inclined to agree that there's at least an element of Lee not feeling like he can measure up to his father. That speech in the miniseries where he accuses Bill of inadvertantly killing Zak (though unrealistic expectations of his son) - I don't think he's just talking about Zak. Clearly Apollo is capable/talented at his job. But I definitely think it's hinted that he might not have chosen this career had he not grown up the Cmdr.'s son. That is, he chose this career in part because he felt the need not to let his father down - and in situations like that there's always going to be a "do I measure up?" element at work.

But yeah, certainly the divorce and the issue with Zak play big parts in it too.

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